Jesus Relationship Father

Jesus and His relationship to his Father

Before I even start with this discussion I have to
make three points very clear

Jesus is God
    The Father is God
    The Holy Spirit is God

With this article I would like us to delve deeper into the heart of Jesus and
His relationship to his Father and how he projected that relationship onto us.
This will be a little heavy winded article but I believe we have to cover all
bases in order to get a complete understanding of this subject. Also, the
article is not about arguing against the trinity concept we have embraced as
the children of God, but to understand the heart of Jesus outside the word

The early Church Fathers did not have the word Trinity and they did not build
their theology around this word. I am of the opinion that we have missed a
vital part of Jesus’ message and heart because we have built our theology
around this word and the weight it carries. It has shaped and changed our
doctrine and theology to the point where we have forced the word to say things
it does not say and to interpret the word to say something when it does not
imply it.

is always dangerous to build a theology around a single concept

. The hyper faith movement built their theology
around the Holy Spirit and Faith and we can see where that ended up. Catholicism
built their theology around the position of Peter – the rock on which the
church will be built. The pope’s is the Peter of the church for all eternity.
This theology brought about the worship of man in place of God. OK, it might be
a little harsh to say that but in essence this is what is taking place.

The Trinitarian doctrine is no different. Once we have engulfed ourselves in
this doctrine we are limited or are forbidden to view the word of God openly.
Anything that does not tie in to the concept attached to the word Trinity is
evil and not of God. As you read through this article it will become clear what
I mean by making this cold statement.

begin this study, I would like to start with this verse in Colossians: 

Col 1:15 Who is the image of the invisible
God, the firstborn of every creature:
Col 1:16  For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that
are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:
Col 1:17  And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.
Col 1:18 And he is the head of the body, the church: who is the beginning,
the firstborn from the dead; that in all things he might have the pre-eminence.
Col 1:19  For it pleased the Father that in him should all fullness dwell;

These verses of scripture opens up such a huge can of worms that for a long
time replica watches uk I refused to teach on it. These five verses
will begin a study in scripture that will take us on a journey throughout
scripture to answer the basic questions these verses raise.

The first statement is that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Now this
seems like a non-statement or a non-question, but if God is invisible, who did
all the prophets of the Bible see. Has anyone in history ever seen this
invisible God?

The answer no matter how much we would like it to be different is no, no man
has ever seen the invisible God. Not too sure you go with this statement? Let
the Word of God answer this question.

1Jn 4:12  No man hath seen God at any time. If
we love one another, God dwelleth in us, and his love is perfected in us.

Joh 1:18  No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which
is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

1Ti 6:16  Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man
can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and
power everlasting. Amen.

Who is this invisible God that no man has seen and of whom Jesus is the image.
Is this the God of the Old Testament? No, it cannot be, because there is
accounts of people in the old testament saying that they saw God

Gen 32:30  And Jacob called the name of the
place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

Jdg_13:22  And Manoah said unto his wife, We shall surely die, because we
have seen God.

Also there is Abraham, Moses and others that have seen God. Adam walked with
God. Now we can draw two conclusions from these facts. If we were sceptics, we
could say: ‘see, the Bible is contradicting itself. One place it says no man
has seen God and in another place it says man has seen God.’ However, we cannot
stop the study there because we have to consider the other option as well.

Colossians says that Jesus is the image of the invisible God. Also Jesus
reprimanded the disciples when they asked Him to show them the Father and they
will believe, by telling them that if they have seen Him (Jesus) they have seen
the Father.
The only answer we are left with is to accept that the God the Old Testament
prophets saw and spoke to was Jesus, the image of the Father that cannot be
We will delve deeper into this as we carry on with this study.

The next part of the verse is one that has cause many headaches. But no matter
how I have tried to work around it, it always comes back to the same
conclusion. Jesus came into existence. No-where in scripture does it say Jesus
was created. Therefore I can safely conclude that Jesus was not created. But we
are still left with the word born and begotten.

Now I have read arguments that claims the word firstborn means first in order
or rank. So we have to do a little word study to understand this concept. The
actual word used is ‘prōtotokos’ and this word simply means firstborn. However
it is derived from two base words, ‘prōtos’ and ‘tiktō.’ Now Protos does mean
first in order, place or rank and is where the translators got the ‘first’ in
firstborn from. The second word ‘tikto’ carries the weight of birth. It can be
translated into some forms such as; to bear, to be born, to bring forth, to be
delivered, and to be in travail, all in the sense of giving birth.

This word is clearly translated correctly and cannot carry any other
implication but that which it means. We could argue that this refers to Jesus’
birth as a child on earth. We will however have a hard time explaining away the
statement that states he was firstborn over all creatures. Actually the word
‘ktisis’ here can also translate creation, meaning all things.

If this were not enough to show that Jesus was born we have to look at the
words only begotten Son of God. However, many claim that this refers only to
Jesus’ birth as a human child. It will be difficult to prove this right or
wrong, so I left the search for answers with two verses. The only verse where
begotten son is used before Jesus’ birth on earth seems to be implied by John
3:16 and 1 John 4:9. Both these verses allude that God sent His only begotten
son into the world implying that Jesus was already born of God before he was
born as a child on earth. Again it is difficult to prove this from these verses
or the words ‘only begotten son’ as it could be read the other way around as

For further investigation I will look to
Php 2:6  Who, being in the form of God,
thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

The word ‘being’ in the verse above is ‘huparchō” and it literally means
to begin or commence under or alternately to come into existence. Again
pointing to Jesus coming into being from the Father. This verse is very
telling, because even though Jesus was born of the Father He did not think it
Robbery to claim equality or likeness to his Father. Another discussion, maybe
for later.

The point to make here is in the Trinity scenario it is considered an evil
thing that Jesus was ‘made.’ He is God, and God cannot be made right. Well, I
am not so sure of that. If the Father made Jesus, or caused him to come into
existence, does this change anything about Jesus? Would he be less God than
what He is? Have we gone so far up the trinity ladder that we cannot see the
roots of the doctrine anymore.

The trinity concept was put in place to make sure that cults do not diminish the deity of Jesus. This of course is vitally important; anyone that diminishes the deity of Jesus is in severe danger of turning into a cult like the Jehovah’s witnesses and the monotheist societies that claims main stream Christianity serves three gods.

Jesus being born does not place his deity in any danger, only, and only if we
can accept the teaching of the rest of the verses in Colossians, the verses in
the first book of Hebrews and the verses in the first book of the Gospel of
John.  All these verses make reference to the fact that all things that
are, that exist, were created by Jesus. His being holds all of existence
together and functioning.  From Angels to the smallest atom, Jesus created
it all. This secures his deity in all respects. It also lets us understand why
only Jesus could come and pay for our sins on the cross and no one else.

This always raises concerns. If Jesus was begotten of the Father before all
creation, how then does this relationship affect us? Are they equal in stature,
power, authority and all the things that matter to us as Christians? The simple
answer is yes they are equal because the Father ordained it so. In Col 1:19 we
read that it pleased the Father that in Jesus should all the fullness dwell,
and more directly:

Col 2:9  For in him dwelleth all the fulness
of the Godhead bodily.

Just these should be adequate for the argument of equality. There is
however another argument postulated by others to prove equality that seems good
at first glance however it is flawed and can cause serious doctrinal problems.

The argument goes as follows:

Joh 10:30  I and my Father are one.

Jesus speaking, stating that He is one with the Father. This oneness is used to
show equality between the Father and Jesus. If we accept this statement and
then later read this verse:

Joh 17:21  That they all may be one; as thou,
Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the
world may believe that thou hast sent me.

Hold on, Here Jesus is calling the Father to make us ‘one in them’ If we read
the oneness as equality then we are pretty much equal with God and with Jesus.
It is clear to see how this is the wrong interpretation and conclusion to reach
from this statement of oneness. Rather, we should read this as one spirit, one
mind, one thought, one action; these are the attributes we can gain, but not
equality with God and his son.

So far we have seen that Jesus is the only image of the Father that we cannot
see; secondly we see that Jesus was begotten of the Father, and that he created
everything. He is equal to the Father only in the sense that it please the
Father to have it so.

In the book of Hebrews there is a most incredible verse that is somehow never
discussed or looked at. I have heard many teachings on the subject of the
trinity and two verses are always left out of the discussion. The reason is
that the verses don’t really fit the trinity model. They raise uncomfortable
questions that can cause confusion. Most of the time it is said that we cannot
understand the trinity when someone tries to explain it to us. It is always
beyond our understanding therefore we should just accept it as a fact. This is
problematic for two reasons.

The first is that we are too dumb to know God therefore we shouldn’t even try.
Only the elect and clever can know the trinity concept. Exclusion and
subjugation results for many trying to worship God because they cannot
understanding the trinity model. A man becomes the source and knowledge of our
faith and God is left on the side because we cannot know him or understand him.

Mat 13:11  He answered and said unto them,
Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven,
but to them it is not given

I disagree with that argument based on Jesus’ own words. It has been given us
the ability to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven. The God of the
kingdom of heaven is one of those mysteries that have been given us to know.

Joh 14:7  If ye had known me, ye should have
known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him.

Joh 14:17  Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive,
because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth
with you, and shall be in you.

Now the scriptures are clear, we can know the Father, The Son and The Holy Spirit. There is no secret there. It is not something we cannot understand, God has given us a gift, and the gift is to know who He is. So can we stop with the ‘we cannot understand God.’ We can. We just cannot understand the Trinitarian concept.

However let us return to our discussion. The first verse I would like to point
to is in the book of Hebrews:

Heb 1:9  You have loved righteousness and hated iniquity, therefore God,
Your God, has anointed You with the oil of gladness above Your fellows.”

You should take the time to read the whole first book of Hebrews. It is a
wonderful brag file of a Father about his Son. But in verse nine we get the
statement God, your God…

I have been stuck at that scripture for a long time until I stopped trying to
fit it into the trinity modal. Wait, are we saying that Jesus is God, yes
absolutely He is. In this verse God himself says Jesus is God. Hold on though,
God says he is Jesus’ God. Really??

Some try to reason this is when Jesus was on earth. Not so, the very next verse
talks about Jesus as the creator. The Father refers to himself as Jesus’ God.
How are we going to argue this away. It is not a big problem when we consider
the heart of Jesus. It is however a huge problem when we want to force a
trinity doctrine on the heart of Jesus.

We can no longer use the Jesus in human form and Jesus in heaven from for the
statements made in scripture like Hebrews 1:9. Some will just not stick with
that argument like this scripture:

1Co 15:27  For He put all things under His
feet. But when He says that all things have been put under His feet, it is
plain that it excepts Him who has put all things under Him.
1Co 15:28  But when all things are subjected to Him, then the Son Himself
also will be subject to Him who has subjected all things to Him, so that God
may be all things in all.

Everything is put under subjection to Jesus by the Father. We know it is
the Father Because Jesus said the Father gave him all things. Important
here is that the Father will not be put under Jesus. Then we have a very
interesting development. Once everything is subjected to Jesus, He is going to
be subjected or give all things including himself to the Father, So that the
Father may be all things in all.

I have heard many very mystical explanations for this verse of scripture, for
instance – Jesus will melt back into the one God because his image as the son
will not be needed anymore. What nonsense. Jesus is the Son forever. He is not
going to stop existing. The only way to answer this question is to look at the
heart of Jesus. He is not forced to give it to the Father, He is doing it
willingly so that, and for the only purpose, that his Father may receive all
the Glory.

Now we know that Jesus is God, he is the image of the invisible God, he is the
creator of everything that exists, and He is born from and subjected to His
Father. Do any of these things at all change the nature of the Bible or our
understanding of it? No, it does not, but it does open the scriptures up for us
to understand the heart of Jesus, and why the scriptures say what it does.

Jesus said in the gospels many times that we did not know the Father and that
he came to reveal the Father to us. This seemed to be His ministry apart from
the crucifixion. Furthermore when we read the gospels we find that Jesus is
always referring glory to His Father. Even though He is worshiped in places and
he accepts the worship he still directs all the Gory to his Father.

Note again that Jesus says often, the Son is glorified in the Father. He also
says he does not come in His own Glory but in the glory of his Father. He seeks
not his own will but only does the will of His Father. In John 7:18 Jesus
alludes to the fact that he did not come to seek his own glory but to seek the
glory of the one who sent Him.

Mat 16:27  For the Son of man shall come in
the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man
according to his works.

Joh 7:18  He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that
seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in

Joh 5:30  I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my
judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father
which hath sent me.

Jesus made some other statements to let us know his heart. He told us that in
that day, that is when he has gone to the Father, we will ask him nothing, but
we will ask the Father in his name.

Joh 16:23  And in that day ye shall ask me
nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in
my name, he will give it you.

Joh 14:13  And whatsoever ye shall ask in my name, that will I do, that
the Father may be glorified in the Son.

Look at this now. We ask the Father in the name of Jesus, and it will be done
so that the Father may be glorified in the Son. Astounding. The servant heart
of Jesus extends into heaven even after he has been glorified and sits on the
right hand of the Father.

No matter how much we push the trinity model, and how strong our arguments for
it are, it is not found in the heart of Jesus. We will miss out on so much
beauty in scripture if we insist on not letting the Lord be who He chose to be.
He did not consider it robbery to be equal with the Father, yet in everything
he does and says while on earth and looking forward into his glorified position
is to give the Father all the Glory.

It is truly the case of a son telling everyone about his dad. You know like
children comparing how great their Fathers are.  Can you see the heart of
Jesus for His Father? He truly loves his Father with everything in Him. He is
willing everything to give all glory to the Father. He does not even want us to
ask Him for things He wants us to ask his Father so His father can receive all
the glory. Incredible.

When the Lord taught us how to pray, the prayer is to Our Father who art in
heaven, hallowed be thy name…for thine is the kingdom, and the power and the
GLORY… Can you see yet what the heart of the Lord is? Can you see how we can
miss this if we hold on to the trinity model too tight?

I hope this study will cause you to seek out the word of God and be uplifted by
how much Jesus loves His Father. Jesus is our creator and therefore our God,
and His desire is that we glorify the Father. If this is His desire, why do we
deny Him His desire by our own doctrine?

Posted in God, Theology.

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